Whether you are Christian, Muslim, or even Atheist. Do you feel that your beliefs are significant and second to none? Tell us about what you believe.

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Postby Andrew » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:58 pm

Exactly where did the Apostolic Church get this concept of 'First Lady' (the wife of the Pastor or Bishop)? It is certainly not anywhere in the bible and only can be found in the 'White House' the home of the American Presidency, where America is the great hoare. Indeed in the first Church the Bishop and Apostle Peter was married but his wife was not a prominent figure in the first Church and was only mentioned in an indirect manner in Matthew Chaper 8vs 14. We know that Moses was married to an Ethiopian woman who was certainly not a prominent figure beside Moses. When he addressed the congregation or went into the mountain his wife was not there. The only people mentioned along side moses were Aaron, and Joshua are some of the Elders of Israel.

Ephesians 4:11and12 'And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The above scripture tells us that It is God that do the appointing in his house. If it is not God that appoints a Bishop or a Pastor's wife in a leadership position then she will only wreck havoc in the Church. One cannot assume a position in Church based on marital status or family connections.

The cancer in most Apostolic Churches is caused by these so called 'First Ladies' who are not set up by God. The backsliding of the Apostolic Church is often where First Ladies, many not filled with the Holy Ghost are allowed to set their own order and trend in God's house. They reign over the women, divide the Church and sow seeds of rebellion and discord.

This demonic concept of First Ladies have transformed most Apostolic Churches into family dynasties where Bishops sons, some worst than the sons of Eli are given the pulpit and are allowed to sow doctrine of devils into the fabric of the Church. These sons many of whom marry and divorce on several occasions are given free reign in the Church and subdue and kill God's Prophets. The Apostolic Church have backslidden from the old path of Holiness and have exchanged holiness for worldliness where women no longer wear head covering, tamper with their hair and wear makeup. These so called Apostolic backsliders always say 'where in the bible does it say not to straighten your hair'? Paul in Galatians chapter 5vs21 spoke of the 'such likes' the sins not mentioned. I would ask these so called Apostolic women did the Holy Ghost lead them not to wear hats, wear makeup etc. The book of Revelation spoke of the spirit of Jezebel in the Church. King Ahab allowed his wife 'First Lady'Jezebel to be prominent in his kingdom to his own distruction.

Many 'First Ladies' have become idols of doom, who disrupt, distract, destroy, corrupt, poison and kill Churches... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Last edited by Andrew on Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:27 am, edited 11 times in total.

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Postby Ellah » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:42 pm

I definitely agree with your post sir. Where did it come from many ask? Hell is my conclusion.
God calls man by man and not as a couple, that's why we know from that which is written that the return of the lord Jesus two will be in the bed and one will go and one will be left..............

Another interesting one is King Ahasuerus, Queen Vashti and Queen Esther who are a perfect example of the Church today.
Queen Vashti was a prominent figure and rebelled against the king and praise be to Jesus that justice was executed and she was demoted. Queen Esther came on the scene and she represented God in prayer, fasting and standing for her people as opposed to the rejected Queen Vashti who was having her own party in her own chambers.

Queen Esther spent 3 months without seeing the king and before she could go to see the king she went before God (God was the head) and access was granted as it went before higher authority. Now in this day and age woman who have not been appointed by God are prominent and they do nothing for the people of God.

God calls for the wailing women to wail for the nations but none is found as the first ladies are busy playing the part of first lady. Promoting competition in dressing, ungodly hair do's, fake nails to mention but a few. They refuse to lead worship, a good example is Moses Wife Zipporah who was not a prominent figure, she was not active beside the husband. The husband's sister Miriam was known for gathering the women and leading worship but Zipporah did not get any special mention.

Sarah who was called of God, the princess the mother of nations was married to Abraham and she was not a prominent figure. When God spoke to Abraham to offer Isaac she was not beside him when Abraham and Isaac where on top of the mountain........ When God came down with the Angels and ate with Abraham was Sarah mentioned there?.....................

Thank you Sir Riley. This is very interesting topic l shall be back
Ellah Kandi

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Postby Davion » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:56 am

The topic raised regarding the place of a ‘First Lady’ in the Church is a very interesting topic that needs exploring; it has greatly stirred me up. I agree with the above posts from Andrew and Ellah, that the term and the concept of a first lady was never in the Bible, nor are there any examples of the same in their own right.

The term 'First Lady' has infiltrated many Churches, it has become prestige, it is however gender driven because when the man is ordained as the Pastor or Bishop, his wife is automatically promoted as the First Lady of the Church. In other words she becomes an assistant Pastor or joint Pastor to the man. However, when the woman is the pastor or the bishop of the Church the husband is never esteemed in the way as the reverse. To keep things equal; the likely probable titles for the husband of the woman pastor could be 'First Man' or 'First Gentleman', can you imagine? How does that sound? Not very appealing to the modern Churches, is it? However, it is a fact the husband to a woman pastor is never and often does not choose to esteem himself to the prestige position, as the wife to a bishop would do.

In my experience of women pastors, I have mostly seen the husband as being very humble, serving and fulfilling his calling in God in a more subdued but fervent way, which in fact strengthens the church. At a very young age I started out in a church in Jamaica, in which my grandmother was the Pastor of that church, my grandfather before he went to be with the Lord was a Deacon in the church. He was very faithful, a man of prayer, who ruled his household well. However, when it came to church operations he was very supportive to my grandmother, not because he was the husband to the pastor, but because he was a deacon in the church. Since coming to the UK there are many examples of women pastors, which operate similar to my grandparents, which highlights the point. Another example we can draw from in the world is Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom and her husband Prince Philip, who is respected for who he is as Britain's longest-serving consort and the oldest serving spouse of a reigning monarch [ref: wikipedia].

The danger many churches will face is in the positioning of the wife of the bishop or the pastor as the First Lady, without understanding the implications and pressures that will come with it. The wife is in a role she was never called to do by God and therefore will find herself being judged by God as a pastor, whether good or bad.

My recommendation to the Church world is let the wife of a bishop know God for herself and fulfil her calling in God. At the same time, don’t get me wrong her role as the wife to the bishop is respectable and very important, but at the same time she must not be caught up in the whole tradition of the 'man made title'. She must be saved as a Christian, must be the faithful wife of the bishop, which means she must be supportive and under the leadership of her husband the Pastor of the Church.

1 Timothy highlights some of the points discussed above.
3:2 “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach.”

3:4 “One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravitiy;”

(About the deacon wives, but still relevant to bishops and pastors)
3:11”Even so must their wives be grave not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.”

To be continued…

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Postby Hannah Charles » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:08 pm

I believe your right Sister Ellah, God made marriage for procreation, and for the purpose of this life, only if it is the will of God for one to be married because it is not for all. But the point is, when we get to heaven there will be no need for marriage like you said God made me as an individual so why these people have put these women on a pedal stool is surely for destruction, to promote segregation and division within the church. Jesus Christ is the only Superstar, the first and the last no one else.


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Postby Pauline » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:32 am

First Lady is the title used for the spouse of head of state NOT the church.

Ephesians 5:23 says “Christ is the head of the church:”
Nowadays the Bishops' and Pastors' wives are called First ladies for prestige. Many ministries (churches) that have been formed are called by the leader's name not Jesus,so I suppose that is their state. The wives are given offices in the state(church).The interesting thing is a Pastor's wife is automatically an evangelist, marriage counsellor, women conference organiser and all the man made titles that we don't find in the bible

1Timothy3:11 says “Let the deacons be the husband of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.”
Titus 2:3,4 says”The aged women likewise , that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children
The bible gives us examples of good and bad wives. Sister Ellah and Brother Andrew mentioned some of them. When I read their posts I really wanted to find about these wives, so here are some other examples that I found

Examples of Good wives in the bible are :-
Noah's wife: Genesis 6 Noah's wife is not really mentioned but she was a good wife, mother and keeper of home. Noah's wife was faithful to God .When Noah got the instructions to build the ark; she did not interfere in anyway, she did not give him ungodly counsel, otherwise she would have been flooded as well. I believe she taught her sons well because in those days the wickedness of man was great, but they did not follow friends. I believe she taught the young women (her daughters in law) to love their husbands.
Abigail: 1Samuel 25 Abigail was an intercessor, a keeper of home, but her husband (Nabal) was churlish and evil in his doings. When she was told what her husband had done, She pleaded for her husband and her household. Abigail fed God's people and God honoured her. When Nabal died she became king David's wife and she did not get involved in her husband's leadership

Examples of Bad wives in the bible are that I liken to First ladies:-
Sapphira: Acts 5:1-11 This first lady supported her husband Ananias in wrong doing lying to the Holy Ghost. She was managing the finance. She loved money, competition to say “Pastor & First Lady” brought so much and wanted to be seen just like what we see in churches these days.
Jezebel: 1Kings:16 This first lady was married to king Ahab who did evil in the sight of the Lord. She hated God's prophets just like what we see in churches these days. The first ladies take up the responsibilities that God didn't give them. They are the overseers of the church. King Ahab (Pastor) wanted to buy the vineyard from Naboth (a saint) but Jezebel (the first lady) had to get involved giving the Pastor counsel to destroy the saints. She is the woman that bring about make up. In the religious places, the women look up to the Pastor's wife. They have introduced make up, wigs and unholy garments in church.
Vashti: Esther 1:9 This first lady made a feast for the women in the royal house which belonged to king Ahasuerus. These days they call it women's conference, they are usually organised by the first lady of the church(state). Vashti neglected her husband and refused to come at the king's commandment. Just a thought “how many church marriages are in ruins yet the first ladies are the marriage counsellors?”
Delilah: Judges 16:4-22 She enticed Samson, a mighty man to loose what God had given him. All in the name of so called love how many pastors are shaven off, no God's word, no standard in church, because they have comprised with their wives and let them do what they want in God's house. Many Bishops and Pastors are walking blind not knowing what is going on the house of God because of the First ladies. Samson died blind because of his First lady.
Michal: 2 Samuel 6:15-23 This first lady didn't want her husband David to praise God, because she wanted him for herself. She was worried about who is looking at her husband likewise many of these so called first ladies they would rather sit down with their husbands and not praise God. Sometimes they come in service when the so called praise and worship time is finished to give the speech as a President not a Pastor

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Postby Kadie-Ann » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:02 pm

The First Lady

Indeed, this ‘First ladyship’ was birthed from the pit of Lucifer. For years there has been a pandemic of religious heresy which has spread throughout churches of the world where wives of pastors and bishops in certain organisations, especially apostolic organisations, have been exalted and given the status of first lady. This should never be as the church is not a part of an earthly family inheritance. Bishops are not kings who pass the leadership of the monarch through their earthly lineage. God gives leadership to whom he pleases. Church is NOT a dynasty. It is a place of fellowship and worship where all are equal.

These women have been placed by man to be second in command to their husbands even if this was never ordained by Jesus Christ. Church members hold them in high esteem and they are the ones who many will listen to, hence, the backsliding of so many churches. It is absolutely tragic that indeed so many of these First ladies are not filled with the Holy Ghost and can therefore be seen as no different from the WAGS (wives and girlfriends) of the English football team. Their knowledge of responsibility in the church is only flaunting the cash that weary believers drop on the altar- hoping to receive a blessing.

There is hardly any first lady who leads the house of God into worship. There is also no record of a first lady in the Bible. They have become the Vashtis of these organisations, leading silly women astray. These women have been a symbol of backsliding as the ‘title’ ‘First Lady’ has been bestowed upon them by those who profess to know God. This is extremely heartrending as the focus has been taken away from the real First Lady who is the church, the bride of Jesus Christ. Therefore, that makes everyone the first lady. In a certain organisation that I once attended in Jamaica, it was one of the so called ‘First Ladies’- the daughter -in –law of the Bishop who was instrumental in the destruction of the altar of the main church and the building of a stage with a glass pulpit. Firstly, the tearing down of the altar symbolises the backsliding of the church as the altar represents prayer. No prayer- No God.

These first ladies are like the queen of heaven, a pagan deity who was worshipped by the Israelites, recorded in the book of Jeremiah 7:18-19, ‘The children gather wood, and fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.’ For many, what she says is God, even if she is not serving God. She is worshipped by many church members and leads so many into backsliding because they lack discernment.

It has been repeated by many pastors so many times, God is first, my family comes second and the church comes third. This is ridiculous! How can one separate God from his church? Isn’t God the head of the church? How can the body be separated from the head?

Sister Pauline and Sister Ellah, have written about the characteristics of a good wife in the Bible and have given examples such as Abigail and Sarah who did not try to usurp the authority of their husbands but were meek and humble and willing to submit themselves to every Godly command. They also told us about Jezebel and Delilah, who led their husbands and even a whole nation to their demise because the husbands revered them and not the living God.

In the book of Corinthians Paul speaks to the church, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, ‘Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.’ In addition he says, ‘And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.’ At the time this was written to the Corinthian church women were being contentious and raucous and wanted to overpower authority; therefore this command was given. It is not meant that they should not speak at all in church but that they should be observant of protocol when they do so. As today many ‘first ladies’ are given more respect than the pastors themselves. They play a pivotal role in the breaking down of standards. For example, women would never wear jewellery, hair extensions, and trousers or process their hair in the Apostolic Church but since the wives of these pastors began to parade themselves in these abominable things, many women in the church began to do the same because they idolize them.

Speaking about elders in the church Paul in his letter to Titus, Titus 1:5-7, states, ‘…and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:(6) If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.(7)For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre…’ Hence, where the marriage is sound in God, and the wife does that which she has been called to do which is take care of her husband’s physical needs and spiritual needs (praying for him and supporting him in the Gospel) she is sure to get her just reward from God. There was one woman I can remember who has done this. Her name was Mother Joyce Thomas of the Emmanuel Apostolic Church in Kingston Jamaica. This woman never tried to be seen by an audience. She made sure she sought God and was instrumental in teaching young women how to sew and make things for the home. She never ceased to encourage the congregation (when she was called to speak), ‘hold on to God’s unchanging hand’. Today, she is no longer with us and since her death, that organisation has become increasingly backslidden.

Indeed, she should play a pivotal role but if God did not ordain it for her to be working side by side in ministry with her husband, that ministry is certain to fail. Being a Pastor’s or bishop’s wife does not open access to stardom in God’s house! This is not a theatre or the White House! Her role is to make sure her house is in order and that her children are in the right standing with God. She should teach the young ladies how to care for their husbands, children and homes Paul says in the book of Titus 2:3-5, ‘…the aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; (4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, (5) to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.’

The First ladyship was never designed by God and will never be designed by him as he has ordered his sons not to put up any idols before him. This is an abominable act that warrants death. Such ladyship has led to many spiritual casualties in the church as too many people have been led into backsliding, seeing sinning as a light thing- not realising that every action is being paid by God.

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Postby Davion » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:22 pm

Here is an interesting article which also discuss first Lady in the black churches:

where did this title come from?

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Postby Davion » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:53 pm

If you search the web there has been a lot of discussion about the term first lady. I believe the EAGA forums was one of the first. ... eman.html/
Why I Hate The Term First Lady/Gentleman

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